A blog about the other side of the circumcision debate
Reblogged this on oogenhand.
Hi! I’m not stalking your blog post, I just saw it linked from another page that was linked from another page and so on, just like the internet goes. I was really intriguied by a post you made that included: “Many of the intactivists who you had post here will never comment on another thread, and I have seen in countless other threads. Because I make it a point to counter the shit. And so do others.”
I’m posting because I really LOVE to discuss this topic with evidence rationality, but there are so few venues to do so. There are so few people willing to “counter the shit” with real evidence and effort, instead of resorting to attacks. I am more qualified than most of the population to evaluate scientific literature and I’ve combed over the body of research with a fine toothed comb. So I feel like I have a lot to contribute beyond “OMG mutilation”. I think my intactivism is based in a belief that the raw data, scientific consensus and globally agreed upon medical ethics do not support what is happening in the U.S., rather than emotion or hyperbole, which I can concede is fairly common in the movement.
However, I’ve been mistaken before, is this a page that would welcome scientific discourse, or would you just delete my comments if you thought they undermined your blog too much?
I’d love to take you up on your challenge but I would hate to waste my and your time. Thanks so much for reading!
I do delete comments. I only do that when the commenter is making non stop threats which I don’t publish at all, or is repeating the same comments over and over, which I eventually quit publishing, or when the person is being abusive to someone else, which I don’t publish. However, I probably will be very slow publishing your comments, if they really are worth taking the time to respond to. I’ve not had an intactivist make a comment that I’ve never seen before in a very very long time. So if you have written something unique that will be interesting. Please also understand that there are multiple authors of this blog, and I may have to get them to respond to your responses. I believe you have another response which I will leave unpublished for now, though I haven’t double checked to see if it was you. In the future if you could leave a response on the appropriate blog post just to make it easier for me, it will drastically increase the response time. As I have mentioned before, I take frequent long breaks from this blog and topic, for my own sanity.
I’d also really like to point out that in the end, my blog isn’t even necessarily about convincing people that circumcision is what everyone should do. In my opinion the evidence we currently have is such that parents should evaluate it and make the decision, because the evidence isn’t good enough to ban the procedure. However, it’s not even a blog about that. My blog is really about the fucked up things I have seen intactivists do. Lying about the scientific evidence is only one part of that and a small part of what this blog addresses. Arguing about that really misses an important point I try to raise with this blog, which is that the movement has gotten totally lost in hyperbolic overly emotional bullshit and it harbors some scarily crazy people. The folks that try to say anything are dismissed as intactocops. Thats a problem.
So if there is a difference of opinion on some evaluation or other of the science, ok. I doubt it will be anything earth shattering. There isn’t any data that is so compelling as to either force circumcision or to ban it. We both know that. That’s not of any real surprise to me. There are certain populations who may be better served than others by infant circumcision and others that may be higher risk.
But holding up a knife and threatening to come after a pediatrician, or calling your mother a whore because they did a simple, low risk procedure with the belief that it’s in your best interest? And advocating others do it? Well, that doesn’t help anybody.
Sweet! I’m sorry if this was the wrong place to post this. I did post my intro post here, awaiting moderation: https://thecaseagainstintactivism.wordpress.com/2014/09/12/an-open-call-2/
Since this particular blog post is about violence (which I do not condone in any form), I won’t elaborate here. I agree that there are no data compelling enough to force or ban circumcision. Those are the extremes.
Rather, there are compelling enough data to reach the conclusion that only circumcision for therapeutic or religious reasons can be considered ethical, unless the person undergoing surgery is able to give consent.
Medical ethics are largely conserved across developed cultures, generally centered of four basic principals: Autonomy, Beneficience, Non-maleficience, and Justice (fair allocation of resources). The first three are the ones that are relevant to infant circumcision.
I look forward to participating!
I just wanted to note that I did submit a comment there that I thought was pretty well-sourced. It still doesn’t look like it’s on the blog, so I guess pending moderation or deleted? Or would it be a glitch?
I think that the evidence-based side is really under-represented overall. I agree with you there.
I just want to make sure I’m not violating any guidelines.
I’ve only got this comment. Could you resubmit your other? Must have been a glitch. I do moderate comments but pretty much the only things that don’t go through are people being big jerks
Thanks for this blog. I came across it when a ‘friend’ of mine put up a Facebook post about how she can’t be friends with anyone who ‘glorifies the mutilation of their son.’ Since I had my son circumcised, I did some research, and came across l your blog. They’re facts and viewpoints are so off the radar and filled with hate that I feel relief that I don’t understand where they are coming from. ‘Human rights, they’re calling this?? Human rights….
Let’s be very clear about this:
1. There has yet to be a SINGLE one of these actions.
2. IF one was perpetrated – who’d care.
Rapists are the scum of the earth – if they use a knife or a penis is irrelevant…………..
Oh I greatly appreciate this. Thank you so very much for proving my point. It’s so much more valuable when I can showcase your violent comment and prove it’s genuine
Intactivists are a crazy bunch that should probably have their heads checked! It’s a little put off ish that all they ever think about is baby peen.
Plain and simple, these people are sick! Once they get a good look at this blog post (because they’re stalking it), they will go right into denial mode. They will make excuses and we all know it’s bullshit. Great blog post!
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